1891 Elizabeth Lyons born 20/08/1891 at 10 D Block, Peabody Buildings, Bermondsey. B10 . Last and 6th child of Timothy & Elizabeth [nee Tobin] Lyons, he given as Skin Warehouseman . Registered St Olaves Dec 1891. Surviving siblings: William John Lyons 1880, Helen Lyons 1885 & Josie Lyons 1888 [ named Elizabeth Mary Josephine Lyons!] . No baptism yet found
1894. Elizabeth Lyons was living 8 Black Swan Yard, Bermondsey Street, Southwark . Timothy Lyons is there in the London Electoral Roll
1895. Elizabeth Lyons was living 10 Cundall's Place, Tyers Gateway, Southwark - this off Bermondsey Street. Timothy Lyons is there in the London Electoral Roll
1896. Elizabeth Lyons was living 10 Cundall's Place, Tyers Gateway, Southwark. Timothy Lyons is there in the London Electoral Roll
1897. Elizabeth Lyons was living 14 Kipling Street, Southwark. - this runs N/S below Snowsfield. I cannot be absolutely certain this is my Timothy, but only other Timothy in Southwark in this period, 1894-1907, would seem to his his 'nephew' Timothy Lyons at 17 Woolf Street, paying rent to his brother-in-law, William Osbourne [ wife Mary Lyons]. Timothy Lyons is there in the London Electoral Roll
1898-1908 Elizabeth Lyons was living at 9 Wilds Rents from 1898 until 1907-8, when her parents moved to 3 Marcia Road : she, being 17 by then, might have already been working and living in the Pineapple Inn. .
1901 Census. Elizabeth Lyons, 9, living
Wilds Rents Bermondsey
Timothy S. 48 Dock Labourer b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 45 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 9, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Bermondsey
Josephine 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Peckham
Helen 15 . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . b.Blackfriars
William J. 19 General Carman. b.Bermondsey
David Tobin 30 married Wharf Labourer. b.Bermondsey . Thus the family with 4 surviving children plus Elizabeth's brother, David Tobin, 30, once again.
1911C. Elizabeth A Lyons,19, housemaid, b. Dockhead, with sister, Ellen Lyons , 24, barmaid, at a licensed Victuallers, 8 rooms, at Pineapple I , St. Georges Road, Elephant & Castle. The Pineapple Pub was demolished by 1960 : photos on Ellen's page
1915. Elizabeth Lyons - age~ 24 married John [Jack] Allen 13/9/1915, in Southwark Register office. He, 24, a licensed Victuallers Cellarman, she 24, a Printer's Clerk. Her father, Timothy Lyons is given as a Crane Driver, his, Frederick Allen, deceased, as a Blacksmith journeyman. Her mother, E. Lyons, is a witness. There were no children..
In 1911C, I think he is the John Allen, 20, b.Southwark, barman at 205 Old Kent Road , this the Castle, which was right by Marcia Road . The Castle continued in business until cerca 1985 when it became The Gin Palace, so he may well have continued working here . - convenient from both Darwin Street and Marcia Road.
5/7 Marcia Road seen at end of street
1917. Elizabeth Allen was godmother to her nephew Len Lyons
1918-1923 . They - Elizabeth and her husband - definitely lived on the first floor of 21, Darwin Street , where her brother William Lyons lived with family on the ground floor, from 1918 - early 1924[ Have proof of this from the Electoral Roll books for each year[ in Southwark Local History Library] & also her mother's Will, written February 1924] - and probably she was there from 1915 when they married, he joining up 3 months after their wedding ..
1919. Her husband John Allen in the 1919 Absent Voters List at 21 Darwin Street as 678031 Rfm 1/21 Lond.Regt.
I cannot find his Silver War Badge on Ancestry
1924. Elizabeth & Jack Allen moved to 3, Marcia Road, Bermondsey, maybe to look after mother, Elizabeth Lyons, in her final weeks/days, or maybe they just took over the tenancy. Elizabeth was the sole beneficiary - of very little - from her mother's death in 1924. Elizabeth & Jack were still there in 1939 [from Electoral Roll books, Southwark Archives] , but not by 1945 when the Electoral Roll books were once again published , only a Grace Marlow & Annie Rogers at 3, Marcia Road then [ nos 3 & 5 in St. Georges ward C - different ward to all the other houses in Marcia Road] . So, they did not live near Croydon [ as Hilda thought] until 1939 at the earliest. And, surely William could not have had too bad a relationship with her from~1915 -1924, as implied by Hilda, as they lived in the same house, albeit on different floors, for at least 6 years: but then, this itself could have caused bad feelings!!. And she was indeed the godmother of one of William's children - Len,1917.
1939 Register. Elizabeth Allen, born 15/7/1891, is living 3 Marcia Road with John Allen, born 8/4/1891, GPO postman. Birthday wrong-different from her b.c.!
Quote from Philippa:" I remember mother[Hilda] speaking about Aunt Lizzie when I was a child[1950s]. From my recollections she lived in a suburb near Croydon with her husband for the rest of her life, close to Aunt Josie. I have a feeling that her husband was a postman but perhaps I'm wrong. Mother gave me a small diamond ring years ago which I think was Aunt Lizzie's. It's quite attractive but not worth a lot I'd imagine." It is also thought that she wore a wig.
Nelllie and, possibly, Lizzie on the right of her . . .Could this unknown photo- from Philippa - be Lizzie??
1955. A death of an Elizabeth Allen with an appropriate year of birth, would seem to be in Battersea in 1955, estimated age 64: but this does not tie up with Philippa's thoughts of her living in Croydon. And indeed this death is not hers, but of a widow of Ernest William Allen! A death. Jun 1950, Chatham Kent 5b.324, aged 58, is a possibility, but so far away from Croydon!, or Elizabeth A Allen Dec 1962 Lewisham 5d.71 age 72 maybe more likely. And she is entered as Elizabeth A Lyons in the 1911C.. But have purchased this d.c. and it is not her, but that of a wife of a W.G. Allen..
No plain John Allen dies Southwark 1940-1970, nor Lewisham 1940-1970 of roughly the correct age and none die in Croydon 1940-1983
For details of her family tree, her siblings and her childhood, return to
Timothy Lyons 1852-1923
Lyons family main page