Harold Turner 1890 - 1967

1890.  Harold born in Village, Lindsell. Now have b.c. BT 5. - 20/10/ 1890. [ seemingly late October, as entry 6/7/1915 to Australian Army has him as 24 yrs 9 mths. Also 5 mths in early April 1891C - all this proved good deduction!!]. Parents George & Charlotte [nee Parchment] Turner, he a farmer.

haroldbc

Middle of 3 children. Baptised 12/4/1891, parents George & Charlotte Caroline Tuirner of Lindsell, father farmer, in Stebbing in Primitive Methodist Circuit, Braintree.D/NM5/4/11

Mill House, beside the school in Lindsell

1891 Census. Living near the Mill, Lindsell, next to the Vicarage. The photo above is the old Mill House, I have not got a photo of their actual house/cottage.

  age  
George  Turner 25  
Charlotte C.  21  
Harold  5 mths  

The missing William George Turner, his elder brother, is staying/living with his grandparents, William & Susan Turner on census day. They are at Carters Farm, Bardfield Road, Stebbing, not far away across the fields.

He was baptised on 12/4/91 - from D/NM 5/4/11 - in Stebbing [ Braintree Primitive Methodist, solemnised in the parish of Great Bardfield], parents George & Charlotte Caroline Turner, Lindsell, farmer.

1893. Harold Turner is admitted - E/MA 27/1 - to Lindsell School, father George Turner, Lindsell, on 30/11/1893, with an incorrectly stated date of birth of 6/2/1890,. presented to std 1 in Sep1894 and then withdrawn when the family moves to Stebbing.

1894.  1/10/94, Harold Turner is admitted to Stebbing Infants Board School - E/MA 26/1 - admission number 572, father Geo, the Downs.

9/10/1894 Sister, Dorothy Lily Turner born, at The Down, Stebbing. Father given as a farmer. Birth registered 16/11/1894 by her mother. Have b.c. BT6. Baptised 11/11/1894 in Stebbing, record in the Primitive Methodist Register Book of Baptisms at Braintree. Father again given as farmer. Have this baptism record.

This map of Carters/Duck End Farm shows how near to Lindsell it was across the fields: so George & family at' near the Mill' were close to William at Carters Farm.

1901 Census.[Stebbing Dist.2, p.14 of 19] Living at Duck End Farm, Stebbing. [just a different name for Carter’s Farm]

  age  
William    Turner  60  widow, Farmer,  b. Stebbing
George  son    35 Horseman on farm  b. Stebbing
Charlotte C.  31 b. Bethnal Green.
William G.    11  b. Lindsell
Harold  11 b. Lindsell
Dorothy L b. Stebbing.

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william-1901c

Carters farm [with owner, Karen Hill] , August 2008.

1910. His grandfather, William Turner, dies, 18/2/1910. {The farm was then said to have been owned by a Wilkinson [who then married a widow Cracknell], this coming from Frank Howlands book: in fact William married widow Cracknell in 1905, and was described as a lowly 'labourer' on the m.c. - so I am sure he never owned - more likely held the tenancy of - Duck End Farm}. The dismal lot of Essex subsistence farming [ see 'Meagre Harvest' by Brown] must have caused Harold's father, George, to seek a new life in Australia. Harold's elder brother, William George, was soon to marry Edith Mead: family lore has it that she refused to leave Essex whilst her mother, Ellen Mead, was still alive [& this lady did not die until 1928]. Thus George, his wife Charlotte, and 2 younger children emigrated to Victoria. George, Charlotte &' Lily' are on the ship's manifest of the SS Orama [Orient Line] which sailed from London on 10 Nov 1911. I do not know why Harold is not on this manifest: was he on this boat or had he perhaps sailed earlier to find a base for his parents and sister. ? I have repeatedly searched for him on ships' manifests 1908 -1912 and can not find him. His d.c in 1967 implies he arrived in Victoria January 1911-January 1912.

1911C. I have been unable to locate him in England in this, leading me to suspect that he had already left for Australia. His parents are in 6 rooms at Duck End Farm, Stebbing, and his sister was in Chelmsford, as a general servant.

1911. 10th November, from LondonGeorge, Charlotte, & Dorothy Turner emigrate to Australia aboard the Orama.. Only my grandfather, William George Turner , remains in England. Harold Turner is not on the ship's Manifest: could he have gone out a few months ahead? [Unable to locate him on any other ship 1910-1912, but possible that not all manifests exist].

1912 -1915. Settles in with his family at Briar Hill, Greensborough. They build themselves a home - in Eltham Road, although several roads maybe named after them: Turner, Harold, Law, Essex & Arthur: Carol thinks these were only named in the early 1950s, but I have now proved that Arthur Street was around in 1931-Trove. . Eltham Road 1914-1936 in the Briar Hill area has since been renamed St. Helena Rd.

briar-hill.

The family home that was constructed in Eltham Road, Briar Hill.

Streets in the area were maybe named by the family, some seemingly only after the family moved from there / or on George Turner's death 1951.. Eltham Street renamed St. Helena Road on this map..

1914. Harold Turner was working as a baker in Preston [fairly near Greensborough, ~ 4miles]. . Address 4 Arthur Street [ Aust. Electoral Roll - Ancestry]

1915. Harold Turner joins the Australian Imperial Force, 6th July 1915. His unit embarks for France on 30/11/1915. Serves in France and has leave in England at one stage before returning to France.[ a postcard existed thanking his brother,Will, & his wife, Edie: - Hazel has this].. The following is his entry on the Australian First World War Nominal Roll.

. . . . . . . .8240 Pte . TURNER . . Harold . . . 19th A A.S.C.

E. mentioned above was E. Shaw & NOT his friend 8223 Pte Leslie Andrew Edgar, 2nd Field Bakery [ who was anyway 3" taller than Harold].

The first page above & some following pages of his WW1 service are to be found here.

[http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=1920459&I=1&SE=1]

His profession was baker. He served in France and suffered several spells of illness.

1917. On 2/9/1917 he sends a birthday card to his sister. He has missed her marriage on 24/2/1917.

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"Just a few lines wishing you many happy returns of Oct 9th. I am glad to hear that you and Harold have got a place of your own now and settled down. I am looking forward for the time when I shall be able to take a run up & see you. My word we are getting a pretty lively time of it over here now with the Hun raider. They were over three or four times last week and did a terrible lot of damage and killed a lot of people. I am just having 2 days off now to get inoculated against fever. I had a letter from Uncle Albert. He and Aunt wish to be remembered to you. Well I think this is all for now.Trusting you and Harold are in the best of health as it leaves me. kind regards I remain your loving bro.Harold XXX." [Carol has this card]. [ Uncle Albert would have been Albert Parchment 1867 - 1932, Aunt his wife Alice]

xmas1 . xmas2

1916/18? He sent a Christmas card to his brother & sister-in-law, Mr & Mrs W. Turner, 9 Buchanan Gardens, Kensal Rise from France on 16/12/1916/8?? - probably the latter but annot be sure which year. My father's writing at bottom of this. I possess the original.

"To Bro & Sister, Wishing you both a merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year from your affectionate bro Harold".

. 8223 Edgar's record can be viewed on the Australian National Archives -chrisg161, 272709, password corisande1 - : he lived at 31 Barrett St. Albert Park Melbourne

1918 . L.A. Edgar, who was serving in the Australian Army with him, wrote to Harold's sister-in-law, Edith Turner, at 9 Buchanan Gardens, Kensal Rise, Willesden, London , " 10/2/16 [mistake here - it is 1918 ] Dear Mrs Turner, I wish to thank you for the way you treated me on my visit to England. I have been bad with a terrible cold since I have been back. In fact I have been nearly dead with it. I hope you and Will and the children are well. I have received my photos but had to send them all home. I am getting some more so will send you one. Yours etc L A Edgar. 8223 Pte " His service record states he had Furlough to England 18/1/1918 to 2/2/1918

I reread this card at Hazel's in 2010 and it definitely said 1916!!

Harold Turner shows in the Electoral Rolls at the following addresses:
Not on the previous Electoral Roll, but maybe too young even if he were there.
1914 -Harold Turner 4 Arthur Street, Preston [ ~8km west of Greensborough] - Occupation: Baker
1919 - Harold Turner 35 Crawley Street, Preston - Occupation: Baker [Preston to west of Greensborough]. But, in a letter re his army medical records for the Ancient Order of Druids, he is at Mount View Greensborough in 1922. And Mount View Eltham Road Greensborough was almost certainly his parents' address, although Mount View was never specified on Electoral Rolls for them 1914-1948.

1924. Harold Turner 4 Arthur Street, Preston Occupation: baker

1926 Harold Turner 15 November. St.Kilda Road in another army letter.

1931. Harold Turner 22 Olver Street Preston a baker .
1937 Harold Turner "Mount View", Eltham Road, Greensborough - no occupation.

1938. Harold Turner, aged 47, marries Frances Virginia Smith, 39, [name by marriage - maiden name Stewart] 22/1/1938 in the Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Diamond Creek [~4km NW of Briar Hill] Victoria. He a baker, she home duties. Addresses just Greensborough . Witnesses Veronica M Vallence & Ellen Gossbray - seemingly of no interest. His father, George Turner, is specified as a farmer. Her father, John Stewart is specified as a Hotel Keeper.

wedding of Harold Turner

She was born 14/08/1898 in Wallan, Victoria, registered as Francis Virginia Stewart to parents Jno Stewart & Mary Jane Molony: they had married 1892. Her mother, Mary, was born in Bourke Street Melbourne & remarried A. John Holohan - before 1924 & I suspect much earlier as he seems to have adopted 'Gina', as she was always called. Mary Maloney was a daughter of Bryan Maloney, of the penal department, and had a brother Patrick Joseph Maloney, who died in 1928, Kalgoorlie. Frances herself must have married 1915-1919, a Norman Smith, then widowed on 24/7/1924 [1938 m.c. mistakenly states 23/7/1922!] when Norman Frederick Smith, a garage owner in Tallangatta [& the son of the licensee of the Victoria Hotel Tallangatta] who also used to deliver parcels for the post office and also pick up people and take them to their farms or places of abode, died when the bridge he was driving across at Wagra creek, Upper Murray, gave way and he was pinned under the car and as consequence drowned in 2" of water. He was interred at Tallangatta - newspaper articles appear on http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y [not a link]. Anna said he was born in England: if true then in 1892 Lambeth or 1895 Stourbridge. Also that he had a brother Ivor - no birth for him Lambeth/ Stourbridge! . A Norman F Smith,19, motorsmith sailed on the Orama, 1912 from London to Freemantle. Carol sent me a dc for 1924 Albury NSW - this actually only about 40 miles away, so possible that the Albury 'catchment' area than extended almost to Tallangatta.

Anna, daughter of John Smith, told Carol that the father John Stewart and a stepmother bought the Greensborough Hotel in 1926 . But have now proved that it was her mother, Mary, and a stepfather, A J Houlihan, who owned the hotel. Had John Stewart and Mary divorced or had John died?? Could not find John Stewart in any Electoral rolls from 1903 so likely that he had died. Frances' daughter, Constance Rose / Connie Smith, born ~ 1919, had a hairdressing salon in Eltham and married Horace Victor Burkett.: they had no children and she died 1982, Fitzroy. Her son, John Ivor Smith, born 1920, also married and had children Ronald, John & Anna. He was joint licensee of the Greensborough Hotel with his mother from 1951, the license being transferred from F H Wregg - but she, Gina, was listed there in the Electoral Rolls for 1931 & 1936, occupation 'home duties', her remarried mother, Mary Holohan, being the 'joint' owner. John Smith jnr sold the King Island Hotel, Currie, Tasmania and purchased the Grand Terminus in Bairnsdale about 2005. They have since sold and now are managing the Riversleigh Country House in Bairnsdale. Very nice people'- from Michelle Hudson, owner of the Greensborough Hotel since 1990.

History of Greensborough and of the Greensborough Hotel

 

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Photos of the Greensborough Hotel , taken ~2009. Who were D & M Monaghan: Michael & Mary Monaghan are listed in 1924 Electoral Roll as hotel proprietors, Greensborough.

Frances Virginia Smith shows in the following rolls:

1931 - Greensborough Hotel, Greensborough - Home Duties
1936/7 - Greensborough Hotel, Greensborough - Home Duties. No other Smiths shown there. But her mother, Mary Houlihan, was the licensee

But she did not become the licensee[ jointly with her son] until 1951. She does not show on the electoral rolls for Victoria prior to 1931. Her first husband Norman Smith died in 1924 and she would have married him ~1916-1921.

There were 2 children by her first marriage: Constance Rose Smith, a hairdresser & John Ivor Smith. Her family [ mother, Mary Houlihan, & step father] had owned the Greensborough Hotel 1926-1937 and then again from 1951.- maybe they owned it throughout and let out the license? . Gina seems to have participated in the running of it for a long while, 1926 until retirement / 1986 death.

1942 The Harold Turner, storeman, at 14 Asling Road Preston is someone else as another identical entry in 1954!

1943. Harold Turner, baker, and wife, Frances Virginia, home duties, were at Were St., Montmorency in Electoral Roll.

1949. Harold Turner, baker, and wife, Frances Virginia, home duties, were at Were St., Montmorency in Electoral Roll.

1954 & 1963. Harold Turner, nil occupation, and wife, Frances Virginia, home duties, were at 18 Alexandra St. Greensborough in Electoral Roll.[ this just to south of Main St]. Was he, then aged 64, suffering from Thrombosis by this time and unable to work? This at odds with Carol's memories that they were still at the Greenborough Hotel, but obviously they still worked there quite often. Frances Virginia Turner at the same address, Alexandra Street, in 1968, yet on Harold's 1967 d.c she states Main Street!. Then, Frances Virginie Turner, at 5 Ridge Road Greensborough in 1972, 1977 & 1980. Her son, John Ivor Smith, is listed as Hotelkeeper, Greensborough Hotel. in 1954,1963, 1968, 1972, 1977 & 1980 - address 75 Main Street rather than hotel name -1980 is the last entry as Electoral Rolls stop then..

 

In 2008, in the Mount Elizabeth Campsite, Gibb River Road Australia, I spoke with someone who grew up in Arthur Street Greensborough and remembered the Smiths [ this would be Gina's son John Ivor Smith] of the Greensborough Hotel. He was somewhat in awe of them, the Smiths!

Harold & Frances Virginia Turner 1955.

Harold Turner, aged 72, with his niece, Dorothy Law

 

1967. Harold Turner dies 7/01/1967 in Richmond. Aged 76. His usual address was Main Street Greensborough. But he had been in Alexandra Street in 1963. The address of the Greensborough Hotel is 75 Main Street. http://www.greensboroughhotel.com.au/contact-us.php. He was buried 10/1/1967 back in Preston . Causes of death include haematomesis - minutes, mesenteric thrombosis - 3 days, arteriosclerosis - years, & diabetes mellitus- months

death . haroldturnergrave

but no plaque or headstone was erected to him by his widow.

1975. His widow, Gina Turner, still seems to be Licensee of the Greensborough - Sally's Ancestry tree, but-2013- this tree says very little about her, not even her parents! . Does Sally have more than a Smith/Butler tree??

1986. His wife, Gina Turner, aged ~88, dies 11/07/1986 -we know this from her headstone. Felt we must be able to buy her d.c., as have Harold's in 1967, but state records end in 1985! - !http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/ . If ever available would give names & ages of her children and maybe her first marriage. She was not buried with Harold in Preston Cemetery - their records available http://www.prestoncemetery.org/search/index.php, nor in Greensborough Cemetery as this was closed in 1978. She is buried in the Lower Templestowe Cemetery and in the same grave as her daughter Constance Burkett.  Newman Lawn, Row N, Grave 39.  Constance Burkett was buried in October, 1982 at the age of 63 and Francis in 1986.  Constance' death place is registered as Fitzroy, Victoria  Registration # 26108 which shows both father's and mother's name . No mention made on Gina Turner's plaque of her second husband, Harold! Did her children not like him?

virginieturnergrave

To do Sept 2012: re contact Anna with all our finds, ask for comments & any photos of Gina.

George Turner 1865

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