Timothy Lyons, born 1852, died 1923

Emberson & Sons traded from 1891 until 1925 out of 6 Wilton Road Belgravia-RootsChat: thus Timothy at least 39 above.

Timothy Lyons was almost certainly the first child born to Stephen and Catherine (nee Buckley) Lyons. His parents had married in Ireland ,31/07/1851, in St. Marys & St. Annes ,Shandon, Cork City, and they had moved to England ~ late 1851/2.

timothylyons-1852

1852 Timothy Lyons was born ,30/11/1852, at 3 Palmers Rents, St.Mary Magdalen, Leather Market, Bermondsey . Father given as labourer. Birth Certificate B3. No baptism record at Our Lady of Salette nor at Dockhead nor at St. Georges : but there is a gap 1852-1853 in Our Lady Records, & thus I assume he was baptised there. 5 subsequent baptisms of Stephen's children have been found in these 3 RC churches..

ourlady baptisms

1861 census is the first mention of this family, by now 5 of them: parents, Timothy Lyons, 8, Mary Lyons, 6, & Stephen Lyons, 2. In the same house, 26, College Street, Horsleydown, St.Johns, Southwark, were a widow, Honorah Lyons, 52, midwife, with 2 sons, John, 28, & Patrick, 21, & niece, Mary Burke,11, all born in Ireland. Which family had arrived first in England and were they related (and how)?. I have searched for Honorah in the 1851 census and she is not there. She dies Jun 1870 and is the widow of a Timothy Lyons: death certificate.D17. Oct.2009: I am now 99% convinced that she was his grandmother- see Stephen Lyons Hypothical page

1871 census. Incorrectly listed under the name of "Lynes". Timothy Lyons, age 17, wharf labourer, living at 36 Brunswick Court with his parents & 4 younger siblings, & a blind John Lyons, 35, born in co. Cork & described as a son . This is obviously incorrect: but could he be a brother of his father Stephen?, the said John Lyons now living with them due to the death of their [Stephen's & John's] joint parents ? . Cannot find this blind John in 1861 census, unless he were Honorah's son, aged then 28: & blind people were not noted in any other census than this 1871C. ..

1876. 30/09/1876.Timothy Lyons, aged 23, marries Elizabeth Tobin, aged 21, at the Church of the Sacred Heart, Lambeth.. Both bride and groom were living in Waterloo Road, she at 137, he at 108.[ There was a pub, The Hero of Waterloo, at no. 108 from 1869 -1944 . John has found- 2013- an old map on which the spot of the pub is recorded, very close to Waterloo station entrance. opposite and just south of St Johns Church, south of France St.]. He is given as Wharfingers Foreman, his father, Stephen Lyons as laborer and her father, David Tobin, as Carpenter. Witnesses are Mary Magdalene Haynes & John Barrett. Both bride & groom could write. A Roman Catholic Wedding. The original church no longer exists. Marriage Certificate M2 -text.

A wharfinger took custody of and was responsible for goods delivered to the wharf, typically had an office on the wharf or dock, and was responsible for day-to-day activities including slipways, keeping tide tables and resolving disputes

 

1877. Timothy's mother-in-law Margaret Tobin died of Cancer 30/10/1877 at 8 Black Swan Yard.. Aged 44. . Was buried in St. Patrick's Catholic Cemetery Leytonstone on 3/11/1877, the body sent from Black Swan Yard, so obviously Timothy had moved in with his parents-in-law after his marriage - though, alternatively, they could have moved in with the newly weds, or, Timothy & Elizabeth moved there at her death to look after the widower David Tobin and his children, David, aged just 10, and Margaret almost 14. .!

1878 Stephen Lyons, first son born 4/08/1878 at 8, Black Swan Yard, Southwark. Father given as Wharf Foreman. B6. No baptism found, but I feel he must have been baptised somewhere: Black Swan Yard slightly nearer Our Lady, but certain no baptism there, than Dockhead Church

Sep 1878-July 1880, the family move again, some way south, to Swan Mead.

1880 William John Lyons, son born 27/07/1880 at 1 Swan Mead, Bermondsey. Father given as Hide Sorter. Birth Cert B7. Interestingly not registered for 2-3 months. No baptism found: Swan Mead about equidistant from Dockhead & Our Lady churches,but baptism certainly not at the latter: Dockhead would never allow me to search for it, but some of their records were bombed anyway in 1940

Whimsical that he should be registered in The Leather Market sub-district & that at his birth his father was a Hide Sorter, as he grows up to work with furs and leather

Father-in-law David Tobin, of 1 Swan Mead, died of TB in the St. Olave Union Infirmary on 26/12/1880. Aged 49. Buried at St. Patrick's Catholic Cemetery Leytonstone on 1/1/1881, body sent from Swan Mead: more evidence that the Tobin & Lyons families were living together.

1881 census, Timothy Lyons, 28, clerk, living at 1 Swan Mead, Leather Market, St.Olave. Was 'clerk' an upwards move from being a Hide Sorter in 1880?

Timothy 28 married clerk b.St.Johns
Elizabeth 26 wife . . . . . . b. St.Johns
Stephen 2 . . . . . . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
William J. 9mths. . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
Patrick Pheien 32 lodger, b.Ireland. Labourer general.
David Tobin 14 bro-in-law.b.St.Johns Travellers boy.

David Tobin was orphaned 26/12/1880, aged 13, and he has remained [since obviously there from 1877] in his sister’s household. Sister Margaret Tobin, 17, is working elsewhere as a collar ironer - from Nicola.

And in the same house is John Allen, aged 3, b. Bermondsey: is he the man Elizabeth Lyons , 1891,[ the as yet unborn daughter of Timothy] marries in 1915? - I think not.

 

1882 Lilian Margaret Lyons    [As Lyons Lilian Margaret,’Dec’1882, Camberwell,1d.906 ]. No baptism for her or William in The  Sacred Heart Church Camberwell, nor in Our Lady. Maybe Dockhead, where records were bombed in WW2, although this some distance from Camberwell.

On consecutive days,

1883. 25/10/1883, Margaret Lyons, 1, dies. Suppressed Scarlet Fever , at 57 Pepler Road, Old Kent Road.. Death registered by Timothy, 26/10/1883, Camberwell, he a Commercial Clerk .Death Cert.D5

1883. 26/10/1883, Stephen Lyons, 5, dies Scarlet Fever 4 days[Maligna], at 57 Pepler Road, Old Kent Road. Death registered by Timothy, 26/10/1883. Death Cert.D6. Contacted Anthony Plummer at the Our Lady of Sorrows Church Peckham 18/4/2010 and no Lyons baptisms nor records of these 2 deaths there. They were both buried at St. Patrick's Catholic Leytonstone cemetery, 29/10/1883, their bodies being sent from 57 Pepler Road.

Lyons-Ste&marg-burial-1883

So, wife Elizabeth has lost both parents and 2 of her 3 children in just 6 years.

1885. Helen Lyons, daughter born 27/09/1885 at 41, Stamford Street,[ this has been redeveloped] Christ Church, Surrey. Birth Cert B8 . Timothy, father, given as Mercantile Clerk. Following info. from Bernard Cullen, researcher St. Georges RCC: Born 27/09/1885, baptised 25 /10/1885 Helen Lyons daughter of Timothy & Elizabeth Lyons (nee Tobin) God parents Michael Lynch & Helen Buckley at St. Georges RCC..Rev. J. Golden. Ref. V6 - 67 . . This is the only baptism for his 6 children that I have found . Called Ellen and then Nellie in later life.

1888 Elizabeth Mary Josephine Lyons, daughter born 24/4/1888 at 11 Goldsmith Terrace,Goldsmith Road, Peckham. Birth Cert B9. Timothy, father, given as Tram Car Conductor.. This birth registered Camberwell. Called Josephine or Josie . No baptism found . The nearest church is Our Lady of Sorrows Friary Road, to the north, but contacted Anthony Plummer there in 2010 and no baptism..

1888. His father Stephen Lyons is admitted to St. Olave's workhouse as 'destitute', from 30/7/1888 to 17/9/1888. Has Timothy quarelled with him or is he really unable to provide for him?: he has changed jobs and houses a lot 1880-1891

1890 Father, Stephen Lyons, dies, aged 63, 1/3/1890, having been admitted to St. Olaves Unfirmary in November 1889. On his d.c. his occupation is Hide sorter . Death Cert. D1.

1890. Living in 34 Kinross Street : this being the address given for sister-in-law Margaret Tobin when she marries William Rixon 12/1/1890- Nicola has m.c.

1891Census.   Timothy Lyons, 39, living at 34 Kinross Street, [this has been demolished, but was off Tanner Street] Bermondsey, in 3 rooms, 2 other families in the house. Elizabeth's two surviving siblings, Margaret Rixon & David Tobin, were living at 10 Kinross Street , as visitors, in this census. .

  age  
Timothy   Lyons  39 Head     Leather Warehouseman born Bermondsey
Elizabeth      37 born Bermondsey
William     10   Scholar    born Bermondsey
Ellen    6    Scholar             born Southwark
Mary J.     3       born Peckham

1891 Elizabeth Lyons, daughter born 20/08/1891at 10 Block D, Peabody Buildings. Bermondsey Birth Cert B10. Timothy, father, given as Skin Warehouseman. No baptism found. Roughly equidistant from Our Lady & Dockhead.

1892. His mother, Catherine Lyons, is admitted to St. Olaves Infirmary 4/3/1892 and remains there till 30/5/1892, reason for leaving given as 'own request'. On 10/8/1892 she is admitted to St. Olaves Workhouse, reason given as 'sons neglect', sons being listed as Michael of 12 Curlew St. and he, Timothy, & Stephen of unknown addresses. She is discharged from there on 18/8/1892. Then on 22/8/1892 she is admitted to St.Peters House, Lambeth, run by the Little Sisters of the Poor. She lives there for 10 years until her death in 1902. So, it would appear that he, Timothy, took no care of / had no contact with, her from 1892 or before, even though he would appear to have had a steady job as a leather/skin warehouseman throughout 1891 & was living in 3 rooms. On the other hand he was moving around an awful lot until he settled for 10 years in Wilds Rents from 1897. But he must have kept in contact with brother Michael, as their 2 sons, William John & Stephen Patrick, were friends c1915-1930.

1894. Timothy Lyons is in the London Electoral Roll as living 8 Black Swan Yard, Bermondsey Street, Southwark

1895. Timothy Lyons is in the London Electoral Roll as living 10 Cundall's Place, Tyers Gateway, Southwark - this off Bermondsey Street

1896. Timothy Lyons is in the London Electoral Roll as living 10 Cundall's Place, Tyers Gateway, Southwark

1897. Timothy Lyons is in the London Electoral Roll as living 14 Kipling Street, Southwark. - this runs N/S below Snowsfield. I cannot be absolutely certain this is my Timothy, but only other Timothy in Southwark in this period, 1894-1907, would seem to his 'nephew' Timothy Lyons at 17 Woolf Street, paying rent to his brother-in-law, William Osbourne [ wife Mary Lyons].

1898-1908 Timothy Lyons appears in the Electoral Roll Books at 9 Wilds Rents from 1898 until 1907-8 [these books start in 1887]. He is listed as Timothy Stephen Lyons, the first reference I have seen to his middle name.[ His b.c just says Timothy Lyons and I have not found his baptism record].

1894. Tower Bridge was opened. There is a family story, told by his grandson, Francis Lyons, to his daughter Hazel and to his granddaughter Alice Richardson, that a reward was offered for the first person to dive off the bridge on its opening day.

1901 Census. Timothy Lyons, 48, living at 9 Wilds Rents Bermondsey, in 4 rooms, 1 other family in the house.
Timothy S. 48 Dock Labourer b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 45 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b.Bermondsey
Elizabeth 9, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Bermondsey
Josephine 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .b.Peckham
Helen 15 . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . b.Blackfriars
William J. 19 General Carman. b.Bermondsey
David Tobin 30 married Wharf Labourer. b.Bermondsey . Thus the family with 4 surviving children plus Elizabeth's brother, David Tobin, 30, once again. Odd that David Tobin is given as married: although 2 1890 marriages exist, no trace of him or his putative wife[ from BMD] in 1891C, and I think it is he, single, in 1911C, in Belmont workhouse. Any Admission & Discharge fiche/book in LMA??

 

1909. Only surviving son, William Lyons, marries Jessie Sullivan, a protestant, in a protestant church. He, Timothy, given as Warehouseman

It is thought that daughter-in-law Jessie had little to do with Elizabeth after the marriage[ family lore, from Hilda Lyons,1910, has it that Elizabeth drank with women friends in The Dun Cow pub; whereas Timothy is remembered as 'a nice old gentleman'] But William did take his children to worship at the Church of the English Martyrs, Walworth, where they remembered praying for the souls of their grandparents, Timothy & Elizabeth, after their deaths in late 1923, early 1924. .

1909. Timothy Lyons moves to 3, Marcia Road [ last entry at 9 Wilds Rents is 1908 - electoral registers/roll books ].

1911C. Timothy S. Lyons, 59, General Labourer, Wharf Dock Worker, with Elizabeth, 57, married 32 yrs, 6 children, 2 died, and Josephine Lyons, 23, Milliner, in 4 rooms at 3, Marcia Road., Old Kent Road. . His other 2 daughters,.Elizabeth A. Lyons,19, housemaid, and Ellen Lyons , 24, barmaid, are living at a Mrs Page's licensed Victuallers, The Pineapple Public House , 7 St George's Road S E, in the whole house, 8 rooms

. Wife's younger brother, David Tobin, 43, single, packer & sorter, is in the Belmont Workhouse, Brighton Road, Sutton.

1911c-tslyons

There were 2 other separate family units living in 3 Marcia Road: a family of 3 Garrard [1 a baby] in 1 room, and a couple, Winegarden, in 1 room front, he a Leather dresser from Austria with an English wife

1915. Youngest daughter, Elizabeth Lyons, marries John Allen on 13/9/1915 in Southwark Register Office. [They are living with William Lyons by 1918; no Electoral Roll Books exist 1916/7]. He, Timothy, is given as a Cranedriver.

1916. Eldest daughter, Helen Lyons, marries in a catholic Chuch in Holborn.. He, Timothy, given as a leather salesman

1919. Middle daughter, Mary Josephine Lyons, marries in his church, the English Martyrs, Walworth. He, Timothy, given as Wharfingers Warehouseman.

Timothy Stephen Lyons[ another appearance of Stephen as a middle name!, although he has become Timothy S Lyons in 1901 & 1911censuses] appears at 3 Marcia Road in the twice yearly Electoral Roll books from 1909-10 onwards, until Spring 1924 when it is just Elizabeth Lyons. Her brother, David [Dobin- presumably a writing error], appears with them in Spring,1921[ but in 1911C is probably in Belmont Workhouse] . Rose & JWA Burkmar, and Lilian Haley are also living there from 1921 to 1930 and 1924 respectively.[do not think any of these were servants: the 1911C entry is above and only the 3 of them in the household]

By Autumn 1924, after Elizabeth’s death,  John & Elizabeth [1891,Lyons] Allen are also there [and also the Burkmars] and stay there up till the last Roll book prewar,1939-40. By the first postwar book, 1945, the Allens are no longer there [ The road did get bombed during the war, a V1 outside no. 58, but little physical damage done. Marcia Road has now been completely rebuilt, being demolished 1980s-1990s and then rebuilt on the original footprints , incorporating most of its previous Victorian design].

1923. Timothy Lyons dies 10/12/1923 at 3 Marcia Road , aged 71, a Tea Warehouseman. Cause of Death: 1, Bronchitis. 2, Cerebral Hoemorhage. Informant on the death certificate was H. Blackmore (the now married daughter Helen) of 47 Darville Road, Stoke Newington. Death Certificate D3 . Seemingly no Will [Ancestry National probate records], whereas his widow left one 3 months later.

Below the burial entry  on 13/12/1923 from the Church of the English Martyrs, burial in Leytonstone Cemetery. The undertaker was W. ?Knox, 11 Old Kent Road

timothy lyons death

lytimgrave

Note: Peter Hunter Gillespie was an Insurance Broker, aged 44 in 1911C, living with family and a servant in 8 rooms at 78 Blenheim Gardens, Willesden, NW.: presumably William John wrote his name on Timothy's funeral card when he died , aged 65, Willesden Mar 1932- maybe Gillespie was also an acquaintance of his father's. Thus the above card must have been rescued from the debris of 9 Kenton Gardens in 1944.

1924. His widow Elizabeth Lyons dies 4/03/1924, aged 69, also at 3 Marcia Road, Bermondsey. Cause of Death: 1. Bronchitis. 2. Cerebralapoplecy Coma. Informant was E.Allen (the now married daughter Elizabeth), also by now living at 3, Marcia Road. Death Certificate D4. Elizabeth Lyons did leave a will, effects of £27, Elizabeth Allen being the executor & recipient: was this will to stop some of her children sharing in this small amount??

 

elizabeth Tobin-probate

Also possess  burial entry on 10/03/1924 from the Church of the English Martyrs, burial in Leytonstone Cemetery. No graves have survived but the grave numbers are known: Timothy Lyons Grave 24, Row 13, Plot 11B. Elizabeth Lyons Grave 30, Row 14, Plot 11B.

lyons-elizabeth-engmartyrs

lyons-elizabeth-grave

 

Could not find the deeds for 10 or 21 Darwin Street, nor for 3 Marcia Road ,nor mention of T/W.J. Lyons in the Southwark Local History Deeds. he obviously did not own the house, but was just renting 3 rooms, on one floor, the ground, I assume.

.Summary of places Timothy Lyons lived.

(These dates known from b.c, censuses, death certificates for Margaret & Stephen & birth certificates of Stephen, William, Helen, E. M. Josephine, & Elizabeth & m.cs of Margaret Tobin, Ellen Lyons & Elizabeth Lyons)

Summary of the multitude of jobs Timothy Lyons did.

 

Children of Timothy Lyons

Lyons family main page